Michael Hoberman at The New England Historic Genealogical Society

Michael Hoberman on 'New Israel - New England: Jews and Puritans in Early America' at The New England Historic Genealogical Society - 9/12/12

The Ideologue: I want to ask you a question about Jewish precedent and Black American exile. My Black Christian upbringing [and cultural inheritance] is heavily steeped in the Old Testament.

Captive audience. Bible. You do the math.

[Audience chuckles]

Is there a similar narrative of Jewish people [and their descendants later on, Jewish Americans] like Irish and Italian immigrants wanting to participate in a normative Whiteness, or was there a strong intention to remain distinctly 'Jewish', to speak, read, and write the old 'language'? If so, how did they buck against this Ellis Island 'bleaching' that so many other ethnic people groups underwent upon arrival?

Michael Hoberman: Excellent question. I think both. I would have to say that in the later decades of the 19th century there was a strong - [particularly because of the Labor Movement and other leftward movements among immigrant Jews] well, they glorified Black Liberation, and at the same time, some of those same people - their cousins, their aunts, their uncles - were drawn in the other direction of wanting to move out of urban ghettos and establish themselves as 'white'.

I think Jews have always been pulled in both directions. You may know a book, the title of which speaks to your question called 'How Jews Became White Folks: And What That Says About Race in America' by Karen Brodkin. And that book, to my knowledge, looks at the earlier decades of the 20th century and the movement of Jews into the white middle class.

Because, in fact, when they were getting off those boats at Ellis Island, they weren't classified as 'white'. You know, I look at myself, and I [notice that] it's not quite 'white'. And another aspect of it that - well, another book, in my opinion, that should be written is about the degree to which [even if only vestigial] the Abolitionist Movement among Black people had an emphasis on the Hebrew stories were.

And people have made the point that [Black Southerners] were much more captivated by Old Testament stories than by turning the other cheek - somehow that didn't have the same appeal.

[Audience Chuckles]

The Ideologue: Thank you.

Nassir Ghaemi at The Harvard Book Store

Nassir Ghaemi discusses 'A First-Rate Madness: Uncovering the Links Between Leadership and Mental Illness' - 9/10/12

Event Attendee #1: Do you have any worries about the implications, the negative implications of your work, and perhaps the undermining of the positive elements of who we consider our leaders [like Dr. King]? It could be very easy to say that [mental illness] is a reason to take them out of leadership.

Nassir Ghaemi: Yeah - that's exactly what I'm trying to oppose in a way. Schizophrenia, for instance, is not an example that I use even though it's a perfectly valid mental illness. It's very well-based scientifically, but there are no great schizophrenic mentally-ill leaders. There are lots and lots of depressed and manic depressive mentally-ill leaders. There aren't many great anti-social ones either, it you want to use that phrase.

So there's something about manic depression that seems especially helpful. I don't think that generalizes necessarily about all mental illness. And I'm also saying that when it's really severe - it's not useful.

There's so much stigma against mental illness. There's so much discrimination against it. People think that if you make any connection, you're demeaning these people - and that's actually one of the messages of this work: these people were not superheroes; they were heroes.

They're not supernatural; they're natural. What makes you a hero is not that you're really a saint, out of this world - Dr. King gave a speech [one of the last speeches of his life]: 'Don't say that Dr. King was a saint - I'm a sinner, just like all the rest of you.'

He wasn't just a sinner. He was depressed.

So, I think once we finally get out of that mindset and realize that our great leaders were actually not 'normal' but [that] they were human; that they had human afflictions - that it's not all bad but actually enhances them in many ways - well, that makes them greater.

Event Attendee #2: Can you talk a bit about about how you selected the leaders? Did you consider examples outside the United States, and were there some that came close to making the cut but just didn't?

Nassir Ghaemi: Yes. I wanted the book to be about the Civil War initially. And then my editor said that this might be a broader thesis. I've gotten a little bit grandiose with this thesis now.  I used to think, 'Well, this explains the Civil War - the greatest leaders were Sherman, who was manic depressive; there was Grant the alcoholic; Lincoln, who was so severely depressed.

When you go to World War 2, the Civil Rights Movement and the Cold War, it was hard for me to find a leader who was not depressed. Statistically, it's far beyond chance and far beyond prevalence in 5-10% of the population - if you take the 20 leaders of those crises, at least half of them are in here.

So, how did I pick them? On the concept of what is a crisis and who was a great leader, I left to the historians. There's enough consensus [at least ending in the Cold War] that people like Churchill, Roosevelt, and King and Ghandi and so on were great leaders, and that's how I left it there. I tried to pick the people that most though were great and then I looked into their psychiatric backgrounds.

There's a saying in Argentina: 'Experience is a comb you get when you're bald'.

[Audience chuckles]

Nassir Ghaemi: I know this now that I've gotten more white hair. Unfortunately, this kind of knowledge is not very applicable to current or recent leaders because people hide the truth. I've had discussions with some physicians who wanted to have more open medical exposure for presidential candidates - including their psychiatric record.

They wanted to have all of their medical records out - some kind of policy that that should be the case. And I think that's the only way [in a society like ours] that we might be able to know the truth ahead of time.

Unfortunately, it's always retrospective, and far retrospective.

Pioneers of the Civil Rights and Labor Movements at the Harvard Law School

L - r: Charles Ogletree (Harvard Law School); Norman Hill, esteemed member and organizer for the Congress of Racial Equality and the Civil Rights Movement; Diane McWhorter, renowned historian and writer; William [Bill] Lucy, esteemed Labor and Civil Rights Movement leader; and the Reverend Mrs. Sephira Suttlesworth, public speaker and widow of the late Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth

Charles Ogletree: The resistance, the hatred, was just palpable, and it wasn't just a southern problem, it was throughout the country. These individuals stood strong and did a lot to make our community better. 

One of the little girls growing up in Alabama at the time was Diane McWhorter, who wrote an amazing book called 'Carry Me Home', about the climactic battle of the civil rights revolution in Birmingham. Her book has won a number of literary awards - including the Pulitzer prize, and it tells the story of Reverend Shuttlesworth and others' battle for justice, equality and civil rights. 

Diane McWhorter: James Farmer, who was the head of the Congress for Racial Equality [CORE], was flying into Montgomery from Washington to help oversee the freedom rides, and there's an amazing story that I love to tell. Here's my account that comes from Farmer's frequent retelling of it:

"Can you get me to that church, Rev?", Farmer asked.

"Wrong question; the only question is how do I get you there". Shuttlesworth replied.

Trying to get trough the mob, Shuttlesworth got out of the cab. Coke bottles broke against windows as he paused to register a strange smell - the first whiff of pure gas. Then he got Farmer out of the car. Hiding in Shuttlesworth's shadow, Farmer followed. Shuttlesworth made his way through the crowd to the doors of the church without so much as a thread on his jacket disturbed. 

Years after the event, people would ask how he made it through. He'd say: 'I'm only a little fellow, but so was Jesus Christ'.

Bill Lucy: I moved to Washington DC in 1966. I was green as a pool table and twice as square. [Three] individuals had a political influence on my life and how I perceived the role of institutions. One was a writer and social activist, a fellow by the name of Michael Harrington, who wrote a tremendous analysis on the conditions of many people in this land - on the lack of education, under education, and powerlessness.

This work became the underpinning of Lyndon Johnson as he approached the so-called 'great society' period. Reading Mike's work raised the question for me: "well, can't you do something more useful?"

The other people were Dr. King [and his campaign for fairness and justice] and reverend Shuttlesworth.

We tend to read someone else's history and judge the value of others' contributions. We should always remember that the labor, religious, civil rights coalitions have been connected for a long time, and we should always be mindful of the fact that we are working people. Dr. King's perspective was that there is something fundamentally wrong when you work every day and you still cannot raise yourself out of poverty and beyond your condition.

This was the tread that ran through his view of the two great movements that ought to be arm in arm.

Dr. King and reverend Shuttlesworth also saw the plight of the poor in a domestic as well as a global context, and they really grew a movement to force government to play its proper role in alleviating the problems that government itself caused. the poor people's campaign drew people from all over the United States to Washington DC to put a face on poverty - this campaign was an idea that ultimately succeeded because of people's determination to get themselves out of their position of powerlessness and make themselves seen by the powers that be. The Civil Rights Movement is defined as the 'Civil Rights Movement', but it was a workers' rights movement. Dr. King's last work was with the sanitation workers in Tennessee. Those 1300 men had decided for themselves that they would no longer be treated as children - that's probably one of the strongest messages.

They got tired of the law of the South that said a Black man could go from being 'boy' to 'uncle to 'grandpa' without ever being a man. 

Norman Hill: Salvation for a race, nation, or class must come from within. Freedom is never granted, it is won. Justice is never given, it is exacted. Freedom and justice must be struggled for by the oppressed of all lands and races, and the struggle must be continuous, for freedom is never a final factor, but a continually evolving process to higher and higher levels of human, social, economic and political relationships'. 

Those words articulate the philosophy of change of A. Phillip Randolph.

We believe that people needed to at least meet the minimum standard for living to effectively pursue racial equality at home. And for A. Phillip Randolph and Bayard Rustin, the coalition was a partnership between organized labor and the Civil Rights Movement. 

Randolph said it best: 'In concert with our fellow workers, Black people can take decisive control of their destiny. With the unions they can approach their employers like equals, not as trembling slaves. Indeed a [fair] contract is [in its highest form] another emancipation proclamation.

Reverend Mrs. Shuttlesworth: I miss my husband dearly, but the good he left behind supersedes that.

As I strolled through the streets of Cambridge earlier today, I was confronted with the reality that the influence of our nation's founders looms eternal - everywhere. I found myself yearning to know more about our collective story. I was reminded that the story was alive and well. 

My late husband challenged us all in what would be his final interview. He said "you must tell the story, the whole story, and then light a fire under future generations, letting them know that there exists a struggle between good and evil - our work is never done".

He would endure beatings, bombings, arrests - persecution and countless threats against his life and the lives of his family. If he were here, he would tell you that knowing the outcome, he would do it all over again. His courage and fiery personality personality undergird his legacy. He demanded a better way of life for the poor and disenfranchised, whom he called 'the least, the lost, the left behind'. 

I'll share with you my favorite story: the Christmas eve bombing of his home, 1956.

He would tell you that it was about 9:45pm - one of his deacons and [the deacon's] wife were visiting. He was lying on the bed, the deacon in a chair and they were deep in conversation - the wives were in a room away. 

The bomb went off. He said he knew it was a bomb. He said he knew it was for him.

He said the klan intended to blow him into heaven. The springs on the bed - there was no piece as large as his fist left. He landed in a gaping hole of what used to be the floor. The wall was at a 45 degree angle at this time and he could see the sky. He says that on his mind was the 27th chapter of the Psalms - 'the Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear?'

He would tell you that there was a rather large white police officer standing out front. He said that as he moved forward, the officer moved back. the officer said 'Mr. Shuttlesworth, I'll tell you what - if it was me, I would get out of town'. 

And so he replied 'well, you're not me - and you go back and tell your klan brethren that if God can save me from this, I am here for the duration and the war has just begun'.

My only regret is that Fred is not with us tonight to receive this honor for his life's work. He told me many times that while the accolades of his fellow man were appreciated, the one that he was most concerned about was that great reward he longed most to receive on that grand morning when he would finally behold the face of his maker. 

He wanted nothing more than to hear those eternal words: "well done, my good and faithful servant. Well done."